Broadening the objective of the system [Birgitta Bergvall-Kareborn, ISSS
1998 Paper Session, July 21/98]
These notes are a rough transcription,
prepared as each individual presenter and/or commentator spoke at the ISSS
1998 conference. Gaps and errors have likely occurred. For more accurate
citations, please consult the original presenters. These notes have been
contributed to the ISSS by David Ing, of the IBM Advanced Business Institute
(firstname.lastname@example.org).[Paper session, July 21/98, 5:20 p.m.]
Birgitta Bergvall-Kareborn: Ph.D. student at Lulea, Sweden
Not going to talk about VSM (which was a mix-up in papers)
Not going to talk about the paper on the CD-ROM, either
This discussion continues from the paper on the CD-ROM
Idea of inclusiveness has been discussed at the conference
Will continue on the work on Soft Systems Methodology
Broadening scope in ideas, in participation, in perspectives.
One more type of inclusiveness:
Broadening the scope of the system's responsibilities
Use goals, objectives and purpose all as the same definition.
Anita had done a lot of work, had found weakness in managerial function,
which is something Birgitta would like to work on.
How have different systems approaches viewed goals:
Importance of goals, how are they set?
If a system is what a system does, how can we criticize it?
Hard systems perspectives have goals predefined.
Cybernetics approach, as means and ends.
Criticized by Soft Systems people: goals are not self-evident.
Soft systems methodology recognize social systems, where we may not be
able to recognize goals.
Checkland doesn't ask to define the goal of a system.
Talks about transformation: Output as a goal?
Weltanschauung gives the output context.
Get closer to Beer's model: a system is what a system does.
Multi-modal soft systems says critical systems thinking is not sufficient.
This is a problem both with SSM and VSM.
System has a few spheres of dominance.
Need to include Christian ideas, such as norms, ethics ...
The Living Social System (after de Raadt, 1991), includes a goal in the
Systems also have an essence: a sphere of sovereignty.
What is the modality that drives a hospital?
Ethical (and others) would be reasonable answers.
VSM system 5 provides an umbrella, but is this enough?
The meta-system generates the goal.
Is developing a new version of the living social systems model.
Wants to change of CATWOE model?
Have put the sphere of sovereignty into it.
Not customer -- prefers beneficiaries and victims.
Not owner -- who can shut down the system?
Don't like the word transformation, prefers change.
Doesn't like input and output, as transformation terms.
... to the 1998 ISSS Conference (Rough) Transcription
... to the ISSS home page at www.isss.org.