Broadening the objective of the system [Birgitta Bergvall-Kareborn, ISSS
1998 Paper Session, July 21/98]
These notes are a rough transcription,
prepared as each individual presenter and/or commentator spoke at the ISSS
1998 conference. Gaps and errors have likely occurred. For more accurate
citations, please consult the original presenters. These notes have been
contributed to the ISSS by David Ing, of the IBM Advanced Business Institute
(sabi@systemicbusiness.org).
[Paper session, July 21/98, 5:20 p.m.]
Birgitta Bergvall-Kareborn: Ph.D. student at Lulea, Sweden
Not going to talk about VSM (which was a mix-up in papers)
Not going to talk about the paper on the CD-ROM, either
This discussion continues from the paper on the CD-ROM
Idea of inclusiveness has been discussed at the conference
-
Broadening scope in ideas, in participation, in perspectives.
-
One more type of inclusiveness:
-
Broadening the scope of the system's responsibilities
Will continue on the work on Soft Systems Methodology
-
Anita had done a lot of work, had found weakness in managerial function,
which is something Birgitta would like to work on.
Use goals, objectives and purpose all as the same definition.
-
Importance of goals, how are they set?
How have different systems approaches viewed goals:
-
Hard systems perspectives have goals predefined.
-
Cybernetics approach, as means and ends.
-
Criticized by Soft Systems people: goals are not self-evident.
-
Soft systems methodology recognize social systems, where we may not be
able to recognize goals.
-
Checkland doesn't ask to define the goal of a system.
-
Talks about transformation: Output as a goal?
-
Weltanschauung gives the output context.
-
Get closer to Beer's model: a system is what a system does.
If a system is what a system does, how can we criticize it?
-
This is a problem both with SSM and VSM.
Multi-modal soft systems says critical systems thinking is not sufficient.
-
Need to include Christian ideas, such as norms, ethics ...
System has a few spheres of dominance.
-
Systems also have an essence: a sphere of sovereignty.
-
What is the modality that drives a hospital?
-
Ethical (and others) would be reasonable answers.
The Living Social System (after de Raadt, 1991), includes a goal in the
system.
-
The meta-system generates the goal.
VSM system 5 provides an umbrella, but is this enough?
Is developing a new version of the living social systems model.
-
Have put the sphere of sovereignty into it.
Wants to change of CATWOE model?
-
Not customer -- prefers beneficiaries and victims.
-
Not owner -- who can shut down the system?
-
Don't like the word transformation, prefers change.
-
Doesn't like input and output, as transformation terms.
Navigate ...
... to the 1998 ISSS Conference (Rough) Transcription
Main Page
... to the ISSS home page at www.isss.org.